Concerning George Martin

First, I need to officially state that on the subject of publishing big, complex fantasy books, I’m firmly in the camp of, “It takes as long as it takes.” That should be pretty obvious.

I just want to be clear that I come down firmly in Martin’s camp on this issue. Good books take a long time to write. Big books take a long time to write. Good, big books take a long, long time to write.

That said, this song is pretty fucking funny. And the video pleases the geek in me on all sorts of levels.

So as much as I’m on Martin’s side with this, I have to tip my hat to Paul and Storm and the folks at Geek and Sundry.

(With a healthy assist from Jeff Lewis, of course.)

Share and Enjoy….

pat

This entry was posted in music, videos. By Pat97 Responses

97 Comments

  1. cromotocciano
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM | Permalink

    That videoclip felt empty of meaning until LARPing came in.
    I LARP like the wind.

  2. TheJaguar
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM | Permalink

    Thought you haven’t read A Song of Ice and Fire yet. Have you been watching the show?

    • Posted June 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM | Permalink

      I read the books last summer. Haven’t tried the show yet.

      • TheJaguar
        Posted June 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM | Permalink

        Ah, most excellent. Aside from book 4, that is.
        When you get the chance, try the show, it has yet to fail to please me. Which is of course high praise for a video adaptation of a book / book series.

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 22, 2012 at 5:25 PM | Permalink

          This being said without having read the books -

          I have also extremely enjoyed the show. They up’d some of the people’s ages I understand, but I think that it made it more watchable for the masses, and though I’ve seen a lot of complaints about the sexuality, I havent found too offensive or anything. As a woman, I was stoked to see Jason Mamoa with no clothes….

          Okay..sorry TMI

          Anyway – its a good show man.

          • Oatmeal
            Posted June 26, 2012 at 5:25 AM | Permalink

            You’ve just given me more reason than I’ve ever had to watch this show.
            I haven’t read the series yet, but Jason Mamoa naked is something I’ve wanted to see for a good long time. :o)

          • IvoryDoom
            Posted June 26, 2012 at 11:06 AM | Permalink

            I’m not sure if that remark was meant to be sarcastic or not -

            but it totally was a series “win” for me LOL. I’ve basically been in love with Jason Mamoa since Stargate: Atlantis!

          • AuttieB
            Posted June 29, 2012 at 11:14 AM | Permalink

            I don’t think the show is offensive…I think it’s too nice. They lost me when they tried making the villians more approachable.

  3. joedetroit
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM | Permalink

    I understand the ‘a good book takes as long as it takes’ theory, but I’m going into withdrawals waiting for the 3rd Kingkiller book…

    Help a brother out!

    please?

    • IvoryDoom
      Posted June 22, 2012 at 5:30 PM | Permalink

      Patience is a virtue :P

      I cant wait for it to come out either – as soon as I know the release date I’m putting in for my vacation time so I can go buy the book at midnight and read it with no interruptions LOL

      Until then though I’ve been rereading, you would be surprised how much you get out of a few rereads. NoTW and WMF are so packed full of information. Aside from that – you should come join us on the Goodreads forum, Rothfussians. Its pretty cool being able to chat about and read everyones different theories about where the series is headed.
      (In fact I’m sort of addicted to it)

      • joedetroit
        Posted June 23, 2012 at 8:33 PM | Permalink

        Patience schmaitence…. wait, I’m feeling the shakes again…

        OK there we go… that was a rough one.

        I’ll swing by the Goodreads forum.

        “Hi, my name is Joe, and I’m a Rothfuss-holic….”

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 25, 2012 at 4:03 PM | Permalink

          Awesome – I think its about a million times fun.

          In fact I dont mind the wait at all, because where the series is going is basically the biggest mystery of my adult life…

          LOL Sad, but true.

          I havent enjoyed speculating about something so much since I took Art History about 7 years ago.

          And ya know, once the book is published that will all be gone! (NO!)

          Okay – Its a fair trade, but still, its an amusing waste of time until the release.

          • emotaku
            Posted June 26, 2012 at 4:40 PM | Permalink

            If its the biggest mystery then I guess you haven’t been waiting 20 years for the end of the wheel of time. Plus, you never know, a lot of time when the author reaches the last book they find out one isn’t enough for everything the want to write. See; the Wheel of Time, the Sword of Truth, Eragon, etc. We can only hope =P

    • Mitchell Hundred
      Posted June 22, 2012 at 6:36 PM | Permalink

      It’s a fact, not a theory. Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OagFIQMs1tw&feature=fvwrel.

  4. Luke D
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 5:08 PM | Permalink

    This is cool, but I was so expecting a Poison spoof.

  5. Posted June 22, 2012 at 5:46 PM | Permalink

    The Bearded Glacier. I will never refer to George as anything else but The Bearded Glacier from now on.

  6. elmobob14
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 6:13 PM | Permalink

    Awesome. Also, long time doesn’t necessarily mean better.

  7. AO_22
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 7:27 PM | Permalink

    I’m completely in the “It takes as long as it takes” book, especially as many of my favorite authors, such as yourself, Martin, Lynch, Mike Carey (of the Felix Castor series) and others, seem to take awhile. That being said, imho it doesn’t always seem to be the case that “Good, big books take a long, long time to write.”

    As evidence, I’d point to Michelle West. She has written twelve “Big Fat Epic Fantasy” books so far in her world of Essalieyan, with another due out either the last week of this year, or the first week of next (depending on whom you believe). She wrote the first 8 in 9.5 years, took a break (while writing another series, which will see eight books in eight years) and then will have published another 5 books in 6 years. And imho there’s no question that they’re at least “good”. I believe that West shows a very deep and impressive understanding of the human psyche, and her characterization, especially in later books, strikes me as among the best that the genre has ever seen.

    • Mitchell Hundred
      Posted June 22, 2012 at 8:10 PM | Permalink

      I think the main point to be made here is that books are not like sandwiches or widgets, with a uniform, predetermined process determining precisely how long each one will take. Sometimes an author can take ten years to write as many books, and sometimes they can take a really long time to complete only one (Proust, Cervantes, Joyce, Auel, Eugenides, Franzen). Holding one author to the standard set by another (or even the standard set by themselves writing a different story in a different situation) is stupid.

      • AO_22
        Posted June 22, 2012 at 9:18 PM | Permalink

        I agree with all that you say, but am unsure as to how it’s relevant to my post? I was not addressing what you call the “main point” and wasn’t in any way, shape or form trying to hold any one author to another’s standard.

  8. Scherbat
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 8:19 PM | Permalink

    “I just want to be clear that I come down firmly in Martin’s camp on this issue. Good books take a long time to write. Big books take a long time to write. Good, big books take a long, long time to write.”

    That would only be applicable if Martin actually wrote good books. He is basically the James Patterson of the fantasy world, except Patterson manages to churn out his lowest-common-denominator door-stoppers at a decent pace.

    • Posted June 23, 2012 at 5:03 AM | Permalink

      This comment baffles me on a near infinite number of levels. The biggest one of these, of course, being that Patterson doesn’t write his own books.

      • ap_gregory
        Posted June 23, 2012 at 8:51 AM | Permalink

        Doesn’t he write his own books? I thought he did.

        • JoBird
          Posted June 23, 2012 at 10:28 AM | Permalink

          Gregory,

          This link is to an article that discusses Patterson’s . . . interesting . . . method.

          Basically, Patterson spends his time doing outlines as opposed to actually writing his novels. Then he has co-authors write the actual books. And so, he publishes (and sells) far more books than anyone else.

          I’m with Pat on this one. Scherbat’s above comment is all kinds of confusing.

  9. Posted June 22, 2012 at 10:16 PM | Permalink

    There’s also this one from last year (pre-Dance of Dragons). I like the music better…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztLYtUGEEfc

  10. chaelek
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 11:58 PM | Permalink

    As a long time GRRM fan, I’ve learned patience is a good attribute to have, as a reader. And it is far, far better to have to wait than to get a rushed, sub-par book. Plus I’m firmly in the camp of readers being privileged to receive an author’s work, as opposed to the faction that believe, to paraphrase Gaiman, authors are their bitch.

    So I’ll be patient. Patient as a stone. Or two stones together. Or a couple dozen.

  11. Veelk
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 6:52 AM | Permalink

    I don’t suppose that, having read GRRM’s books, you can tell us how you liked them? I don’t see any review on goodreads on them from you and I’m curious to know what you think.

  12. jaynjacee
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 10:26 AM | Permalink

    Great video! I became obsessed with ASOIAF a couple of years ago when I was hunting for a new fantasy series to gobble up, and the HBO show has appeased me while waiting for the next monstrous book to be published – I don’t mind waiting. A good book can take as long as needs to take.

    GRRM’s blog is where I first heard mention of your wonderful stories on Kvothe. When Martin listed your books as a good read I picked them up at the local bookstore, and they have joined my list of favorites.

    I was wondering (and I’m sure you’ve probably been asked this before), if Inyssa was a nod to Eddings? The Belgariad is one of my most favoritest reads, and Inyssa pleased my inner geek : )

  13. hobosamurai
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 10:36 AM | Permalink

    The video was quite funny and well done.

    To be honest i didn’t like GRRM last two books and not sure if i will bother reading the next ones. To me it seems like he’s changed the mind about where he’s going with his story and has no idea where to go in the next two books so he’s just rambling on and on. Killing main characters is no longer shocking or controversial when your readers open your books thinking, “since everyone important is going to die i wonder who the main characters will be in the next book”. I’m not trying to be a jerk, the guy obviously has more writing talent than me in his pinky finger, I’ve just lost interest.

    On the other hand can’t wait for the next King killer book!

  14. Jasmine
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 11:18 AM | Permalink

    lol! I laughed so much my stomach still hurts

    as for you Pat! I see you went all defensive on us
    I bet you’re dying to have a video like this made for you ;)

  15. justajenjen
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 11:59 AM | Permalink

    I’ve not been able to get that song out of my head since I heard it the other day on Geek and Sundry. It made me laugh so much.

  16. Posted June 23, 2012 at 12:05 PM | Permalink

    Yeah, OK. It does take as long as it takes. But seriously. I would appreciate a little forward in each of these megaogies, in this first book, that says something like, “I know your time is valuable. So before we get started, you should know there are going to be somewhere between ten and fifteen books in this series. Enjoy!” I love them too. I just wish I knew, generally, where the finish line might be.

    BTW – You and George are two of my favorites. :)

    Casey

  17. loki
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 12:31 PM | Permalink

    ….quit watching videos Pat and get back to work…

    (my lowbrow Cealdish humor)

  18. hann1980
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 2:42 PM | Permalink

    Under most conditions, authors taking their sweet time to write a book is fine by me. If it makes a better product, then do it. However, Martin is my exception. Have you seen pictures of that guy recently? He does not look like a 63 year old that lives a “healthy” lifestyle. Too much mutton and mead perhaps? I am very worried the man simply does not have another 8 years left in him. If he dies midway through book 6 I am going to be PISSED.

    Unless Brandon Sanderson came in to clean things up. Then it would be ok.

    • Jen-may
      Posted June 23, 2012 at 4:31 PM | Permalink

      That made me chuckle. I could have cried when Robert Jordan died on book 11.

    • dietl
      Posted June 24, 2012 at 6:54 PM | Permalink

      Are you trying to say it’s fine for an author to take long only if he/she lives a healthy life and/or isn’t too old? This seems kinda cruel to me. I mean you are talking about the death of a person, as if he was just a writing machine.

      If I had fans like this I wouldn’t need any enemies anymore. I hope authors don’t read too much oh this crap, because, you know, these are things that really could kill a person.

      • hann1980
        Posted June 24, 2012 at 9:25 PM | Permalink

        Yes. The underlying purpose of my statement was to imply that my only interest in Mr. Martin was his books, and my only concern for him is tied to his ability to pump out more entertainment.

        In no way was my post simply a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek joke about the advanced age and general round appearance of Mr. Martin. We all know how Pat is mortified by morbidity and deathly afraid of dark comedy. I would never dream of posting anything that could be interpreted as a “dark joke” to this blog for fear of offending his genteel and innocent nature.

        No humor was implied. I really am that self centered. I am glad you understood my correctly.

        I bet you are a blast at parties.

        • dietl
          Posted June 25, 2012 at 3:14 AM | Permalink

          Sorry, I didn’t get your witty and original remark.

          “He’s old, fat and surely dies soon!” What a classic!

          • IvoryDoom
            Posted June 25, 2012 at 4:17 PM | Permalink

            Uh – That shits just reality.

            When you get older – you get closer to dieing.
            When you are overweight – you are not healthy.
            When you are not healthy – you are closer to dieing.

            Maybe thats cruel, but thats life. Shit happens.

            And it would suck for him to pass before his series ended. Not because he’s some mindless writing machine – but because his fans want to read HIS ending, not someone elses.

  19. Ruyh
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 4:05 PM | Permalink

    Hey pat i have some questions to you:
    1.Does Elthe means the one that hears?
    2.Is Dagon an Amyr?
    3.Where is the questions section?
    This is gona start to look like spam

  20. Brittzkrieg
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM | Permalink

    Pat,

    I don’t give a flying fuck how long it takes you to revise the book. Enjoy yourself, sir. I’m happy to wait for the best version.

    Thanks,

    Brittany

  21. spoonyspork
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 8:53 PM | Permalink

    There needs to be some sort of epic beard-off between Patrick Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin. Just sayin’…

    (I am also somewhat afraid of something happening to the guy before his books are done. I also kinda think he made Daenerys naked for most of the last book just so she gets even more naked time in the HBO series. I kept thinking ‘stop describing how much of her breasts are exposed in that dress and put her on a damn dragon!’ … though I kinda like dragons like most girls like ponies and unicorns, so maybe that’s just me >.>)

  22. prsturm
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 9:32 PM | Permalink

    As long as someone is working towards their stated track, then all is well with me. Sure, if you’re a professional writer is able to quit a day-job and devote more time to writing, one might expect a little more speed, but in the end, writing isn’t so amenable to such metrics.

    I will say, however, that Valve needs to make Half-Life 3 because they said they were! *grumble grumble video games* /derail

  23. themantheycalled mikeal stanne
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 11:42 PM | Permalink

    laughed when at the part when they said stop killing our favorite characters, and for people impatient for the next book, plenty of other books out there to read, i myself have just started to tackle the malazan book of the fallen, best part about it is i don’t have to wait for the next book in the series.

  24. court88
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 12:39 AM | Permalink

    Love it! I work in a book store and people are always complaining about books taking too long to come out. I ask them to imagine what its like for the ones who started the series when they first came out. Admittedly I was a mere babe when Game of Thrones was first released, and have only read the first as it was so epic that I’ve yet to work up the energy to keep going. As for your books SirRothfuss, the longer you take to write Kvothes ending, the more time we get to spend with him before the adventure is over. I fear I will bawl my eyes out from beginning to end as I did when Harry Potter finished. Even if its the happiest of endings, our time with our friend will be over. So take your time in my opinion! While the story is unfinished, Kvothe lives on.

  25. that other guy
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 1:52 AM | Permalink

    So that was kind of a ballsy post, Rothfuss. After being sucked into the R. Jordan saga 12 flippin’ years ago, I will not read GRRM until the series is done. Or until he can learn to write at The Speed of Sanderson.

  26. satishalavandar
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 9:29 AM | Permalink

    Dear Mr Rothfuss

    Are you effin kidding me . When you say and i Quote “Big books take a long time to write. Good, big books take a long, long time to write.” do you mean to say that writers like Brandon Sanderson and Steven Erickson who churn out at least 1 700 plus page book a year are actually putting out trash . Sorry sir but with all due respect i believe you so full of it.

    Ps. I love your books and can’t wait for the third one to come out

    Pss . I forgot to include sh before the last word in the last sentence

    • plut8
      Posted June 25, 2012 at 12:30 PM | Permalink

      I can’t speak for Erickson. I do know that Sanderson has books he finished writing years ago that he saves in a backlog. Then when he needs to take a long time to work on a good, big book, he can release books from his catalog during that time.
      Yes, Sanderson releases big books every year, the man doesn’t WRITE big books every year.

      Maybe check some background facts before you needlessly shit in Pat’s cereal.
      When you troll like that it makes it appear that, sorry sir/madam but with all due respect, I believe you so full of shit.

      PS.
      I intentionally included “sh” at the end of the last word in my last sentence because I didn’t think it was clever to pretend I forgot it in a postscript.

      PPS.
      There’s no reason we can’t all be friends here.

      • marcocanov
        Posted June 26, 2012 at 12:41 PM | Permalink

        Isn’t that supposed to be what Pat did? Wrote the whole story and then started breaking it into the three books?

        And how about the Wheel of time books that Sanderson is finishing, are you going to tell me that he had those stashed away in case Jordan died? And he published those in the middle of the Way of Kings.

        I firmly agree with satishalavandar, we want good books, but there are authors providing those quality books without taking their sweet time (5 and 6 years in Martins case)

        • plut8
          Posted June 26, 2012 at 8:38 PM | Permalink

          Sanderson took time off the Way of Kings for WoT, he had a lot of Jordan’s notes to work with on WoT. More piecing those segments into some form of legibility and adding a little flair. Not to say he didn’t have a big, difficult job in doing it.
          I remember reading a post from Sanderson about his process.
          It appears that he writes colossally fast because of the timing of his releases, not because he is a machine. In fact, a memory of light is already finished, though we won’t see it for a long while yet.

          Look at the upcoming Dragonsteel series for example, he’s had a lot of that written for a lot of years, but we’re still nowhere near a release for it. He had a similar setup on Way of Kings.
          He half writes, does something else, finishes off.
          Sanderson does that intentionally, he thinks it unproductive to stick to one story for too long.
          Perhaps an issue Pat has? That and the anal retentive way in which he chooses words individually.

          Im not saying Pat doesn’t take longer than average, I just didn’t think it fair to call him full of shit for it.
          I do agree with you about Martin though, the man shows no dedication to writing. He treats it as a hobby, he isn’t our bitch but he takes much much longer than he needs to write the books.

    • IvoryDoom
      Posted June 25, 2012 at 4:00 PM | Permalink

      Hmm- for some reason I dont recall reading that at all.

      Way to go reading comprehension! – Do not pass go, Do not collect $200

  27. jasondubya
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 9:50 AM | Permalink

    Pat,

    You take as long as you need. You seem like a nice guy, with a great sense of humor who also happens to write excellent stories. I think it’s safe to say most of us who read here would continue to read your blog for its content alone at this point. You usually make me laugh, or, in contrast you occasionally open up and have some really somber personal moments with your fans, that’s awesome, you don’t have to do that… you choose too. Thank you.

    In summary: I AINT MAD ATCHA, GOT NOTHIN BUT LOVE FOR YOU, DO YA THANG BOY.

    That said, Martins a dick. I feel confident in that assessment. It almost pains me to see you defend him. I don’t care much how long its taken him to write his book , sure it sucks, sure I would love to read it, but hey, I want his final product.

    BUT SERIOUSLY, does he have to be such an ass about it? That guys blog/forums and general responses to fans… annoyed me. Maybe his tune has changed now, but certainly he was a total ass for years. He writes a good story, and I do think this HBO series being as vastly popular as it has been is very good for fantasy as a whole… Well this got all rant like, something about that guy sets me off…

  28. Robo
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 10:39 AM | Permalink

    What’s more likely to happen first? George finishes his next book or one of these three dudes gets laid?

  29. Hanner
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 1:07 PM | Permalink

    That video & song is stellar!
    I’m late to the game since I’ve only just finished Name of the Wind, but you’ll be getting more of my cash for book 2! You have done a great job on book 1, and I’ll try to savor book 2 so that 3 can arrive whenever you (and the calf-skinners, parchment-makers, gut-renderers, bone-needle-carvers, gall-collectors, ink-refiners, patient-monk-scriveners, and talented-bookbinders) decide that it is ready.

    And, man, you are not kidding about turds in Cookie Crisp! Yowza!

  30. Posted June 25, 2012 at 1:18 PM | Permalink

    Pat – this made me laugh out loud. Onto Facebook and my blog this goes. Bless you for aeons for posting this.

    -LP

  31. litg
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 1:31 PM | Permalink

    Martin brings this on himself to some degree. He used to post book updates on his not-a-blog before he made several bad predictions about the release date for book 5. He’s since stopped posting any book-related news beyond the occasional “making progress.” I understand the sentiment; the problem is that now all he posts is the stuff he’s doing other than writing.

    It creates (however unfairly or incorrectly) the perception that he’s doing everything in his power to AVOID writing, a perception that his increasingly long timelines only add to. In particular, he goes on quite a lot of trips to conventions, some extremely small and out of the way, and has admitted numerous times that he doesn’t get any writing done while on trips. I understand that this is all part of the job, that he has a life outside of his work, and that we don’t own him (though I would argue that we do own, collectively, a portion of his career, having helped finance it). But he also doesn’t make it any easier on himself when he intentionally inserts cliffhangers like those in books 4 and 5. Pat, I’d argue that you’ve done a better job so far of making your books feel stand-alone. At least for me, your books don’t require a rabid, drooling, foaming-at-the-mouth wait for the next installment.

    Since Martin, like most people, is likely set in his ways and unlikely to change, if I were to offer advice, it would be to stop his not-a-blogging entirely. His fans aren’t going to forget about him since his name is everywhere nowadays, and it would remove some of the false impression he’s creating by keeping the blog alive in its current form.

    • jesters-armed
      Posted June 26, 2012 at 3:21 AM | Permalink

      You are 100% correct in everything you write.

      However, my sentiments are a little more in the direction of jasondubya.

      Martin permanently trying to sell his old stuff on his blog for outrageous prices doesn’t help the man’s reputation any; neither do the interviews where he gleefully admits to having received “tuckloads of money” for the show and hence, HBO can do with the material whatever they want or his statement that the rape of a 13 year old character by a 30 year old character was “the most romantic moment” he ever wrote!. That guy is a PR disaster!

      I need your help, guys. My google-fu seems to have totally deserted me, I cannot for the life of me find the Kingkiller Chronicle board on goodreads … somebody help me with a link here please. Thanks in advance.

  32. rpetcher
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 3:37 PM | Permalink

    Funny vid. To their credit, they do make a passing reference to a Scalzi blogpost where he defends Martin and other authors who seem to take forever to write their books.

  33. Tazin
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 4:13 PM | Permalink

    UNRELATED:

    Today i was arguing with an employee. He said something completely unrelated to the discussion. I automatically replied “what does that have to do with the price of butter?”.

    The discussion ended there.

    • dietl
      Posted June 25, 2012 at 6:34 PM | Permalink

      And…ahm…

      what ….does ….THAT have to do with the price of butter?!?

  34. ArtemisValjean
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 7:07 PM | Permalink

    George Martin’s Philosofy: Each time a fan ask me when will I finish the next book… I kill a Stark.
    XD

  35. ankha5
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 7:02 AM | Permalink

    Mu phylosophy is to wait for all the books of the series to be published and then read them, one after another :) And that is also the reason I read pretty old books – but atleast I learn old forgoten words.

    Bt yes I broke my pattern with The Kingkiller Chronicle >.< and got hooked

    • ankha5
      Posted June 26, 2012 at 7:04 AM | Permalink

      Apologies for my grammar, but English is not my first language and I forgot to spell check it before I press SEND

  36. Posted June 26, 2012 at 8:47 AM | Permalink

    Okay, that was funny. Personally, I’m glad for the break between good books. I barely have enough time now to indulge in all the geekarific things that I love: Diablo 3, Avatar: The Legend of Korra, and all the cool looking summer movies coming down the line). I would just sit in a corner drooling if my favorite authors released new books every couple of months. I say take as long as you want. It will be appreciated all the more when it does finally come out. And I won’t be overwhelmed by options.

    • IvoryDoom
      Posted June 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM | Permalink

      Man – did you see the finale yet of Legend of Korra.

      Episodes 10-12 seriously gave me chills. I thought it was great. Dont get me wrong, Aang’s story had a lot more build, twists, and overall character greatness – but Korra has some AMAZING scenes. (At least thats what I thought.)

      • Posted June 26, 2012 at 9:21 PM | Permalink

        Just finished the first season of Korra minutes ago. It was fantastic. I’m not ashamed to say I got a little misty-eyed during one of the final scenes. You probably know which one I’m talking about, it involves the reappearance of a certain airbender. I quiver with rage when I think about the damage done by M. Night Shyamalan’s train-wreck of an adaptation. More people should love this series, dammit!

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 27, 2012 at 10:59 AM | Permalink

          I know exactly what you mean – that scene had the same effect on me. I had been waiting for the “connection” the whole series and it was done perfectly. (At least I thought so)

          I also got a little misty eyed in episode Ten when a certain metal bender saves a family of airbenders….

          yah – that was an amazing scene in my opinion. Gave me chills.

          - and yah, Last Airbender Movie…WTF? Seriously. But then again, should have seen that coming, how can you even try to adapt an entire TV series into a 2hr movie. Thats sort of an absurd aspiration. I’m relieved they havent tried to commit silver screen murder to the other books of the series.

  37. marcocanov
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 12:28 PM | Permalink

    Pat,

    I strongly disagree with what you said about GRR Martin. I specially disagree with the quote about “GRR Martin is not you bitch” from Gaiman(?)

    Authors write books and publish them, and we, the readers become your fans. In other words we become your customers and as customers we do have a say in what we buy and we can ask for an author to be prompt and to provide a good product.

    The rest of the world has deadlines, and we live in a fast paced world, can you imagine Apple delaying a product for years? People grow tired of waiting and move on.

    Truth is, authors don’t just write for the “art” of it, they do it for the money, thats why they publish their books, otherwise, they would write a book and keep it to themselves. We give authors our money and we earn the right to demand a good product and a prompt delivery.

    When you check into a hotel, you expect good service, you are paying them for it. Can you imagine calling room service for a burger and hearing the hotel say “You know, good burgers take a long time to make, we will deliver it in 3 hours?” Are you kidding me?

    Yes, there is a certain amount of time that is reasonable, 20 min for a burger. But seriously? 5 and 6 years?

    • IvoryDoom
      Posted June 26, 2012 at 2:47 PM | Permalink

      Wow – this thought process is completely foreign to me. I can see your point, but I just never would have thought it out like this.

      I really do think writing is an art. I mean some authors, like (IMHO) Goodkind have advanced to clearly writing just for the money, but he puts something out like every flippin’ year, because he seemingly doesnt care about overall story arch.

      People like Pat and GRRM are creating a huge story arch that takes a lot of thought and time to create. Not to mention trying to create a world that is seemless and believable and then trying to work that around an entire character story WITH overall world impact. Thats not some fast food – drive thru shit.

      I’d rather authors just take there time and make something really good that I’m not sitting there thinking “yah but in book 2 you said….” and now that shit dont make any fucking sense. (Followed by GAH YOU DUMBASS I HATE YOU *slam book shut, throw to ground*)

      I dont know – to use your analogy, Yes I expect a burger to take about 20 minutes, but I dont order a turkey dinner and expect it to take the same amount of time.

      • marcocanov
        Posted June 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM | Permalink

        Brandon Sanderson has published the following books since 2009:

        The Gathering Storm 2009. 784 Pages, rated 4.33/5 in Goodreads
        The Way of Kings 2010. 1008 pages, rated 4.57/5 in Goodreads
        Towers of Midnight 2010. 861 pages, rated 4.4/5 in Goodreads
        The Alloy of Law 2011. 336 pages, rated 4.2/5 in Goodreads

        Thats just counting since 2009. So George RR Martin has managed one book with 1040 pages in 6 years and rated 4.15/5 in Goodreads.

        Brandon Sanderson has managed to write roughly 3 times more (2989 vs 1040) pages, with ALL of those books being better rated than Martin’s.

        If you count the last 6 years, Sanderson has published 11 books to Martins 1.

        I agree with you, good things take time. But not that amount of time. 6 years for one book is waiting for a turkey dinner for a year

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM | Permalink

          I see your point – and make no jest at it.

          But all this Sanderson talk doesnt convince me much. It’s seriously taken all I have to get to chapter 10 of Mistborn, and I’m not gonna lie, I gave up on WOT before Robert Jordan even died. I dont know, I just never cared enough about the characters or the story -

          Much to my own chagrin – I just dont like Sanderson’s writing style, I cant even say what it is about it. I just never get that feeling like “I cant put this down” which doesnt make me happy (with myself) – since he’s pretty huge right now and basically everyone seems to like his stories. (Hence my perseverance with Mistborn, I’m trying to force myself to like it.)

          Where as I was completely drawn in by NoTW and WMF when I got my hands on a copy – In fact I’d pretty much quit reading fantasy novels until I listened NoTW by complete accident. (it was the last audiobook available at my local library I hadnt listened too LOL)

          So – Maybe I’m a bad person to argue this point with LOL.

          Honestly though – TOR authors rarely fit into my tastes I’ve noticed I feel like they mostly just pump out novels for money a lot of the times and are too predictable.

          • marcocanov
            Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM | Permalink

            ID, thats the reason I used Goodreads rankings, because you and I may have a preference for one book or another, but its in the “collective” that comparison can be drawn. I mean, I AM in Pats Blog, which means I really like his work, but I do believe that it takes t some of these authors an excessive amount of time.

          • leaf101
            Posted June 27, 2012 at 12:03 PM | Permalink

            I would have to agree with you there on WoT. Those books are seriously boring. But Mistborn is AMAZING! I am finishing The Hero of Ages right now and its just great. It actually took a second read of The Way of Kings to like it though. After that however, I became a huge Sanderson fan.

          • IvoryDoom
            Posted June 27, 2012 at 12:29 PM | Permalink

            I’m trying Leaf! LOL

            I really want to like Mistborn – Its starting to pick up for me, some.

            I’m not going to lie though – I have an affinity for Fantasy novels I can see the application of in RPG (Tabletop) format. Its part of the reason I really liked Pat’s series, its something I could see “played out” and I think thats what really gets to me about Mistborn – is I just dont see it in that mind frame.

            I’ve got to progress from that – I know, and I WILL finish Mistborn, I’m sure once I get through it I’ll probably like it, sometimes I dont like books until I get to the ending.

            Here’s to hoping!

            And Marc – thats a good point. Sometimes I dont hold to true to those goodreads rating though. Twilight’s Movie Companion is rated pretty close to the same LOL. (just as an example of how goodreads can go horribly wrong…not that I think that of Sanderson, just a point I wanted to share)

        • Regimoto
          Posted June 27, 2012 at 6:51 PM | Permalink

          I wait for Christmas turkey dinner all year. It’s well worth it too. Some people need to enjoy the anticipation more! I like knowing that at some point in the future I’m going to have a good book to read.

    • dietl
      Posted June 26, 2012 at 8:07 PM | Permalink

      “In other words we become your customers and as customers we do have a say in what we buy and we can ask for an author to be prompt and to provide a good product.”

      “We give authors our money and we earn the right to demand a good product and a prompt delivery.”

      Well. It’s more like this: The author sells his book to the PUBLISHER and the PUBLISHER has a say in what he buys and can ask the author to be promt and to provide a book that the publisher sees as good, not the reader.

      You don’t give the author your money. You give it to the publisher. You claim to have all the rights that ACTUALLY only the publisher has. The only influence the reader has is indirectly, by not buying the books.

      If you really had the “RIGHT to demand a good product and a prompt delivery”, why don’t you try sue GRRM. Good luck with that.

      • tanis0
        Posted June 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM | Permalink

        I don’t think anyone is making the case that the reader has a legal claim on the author’s work. What about ethical grounds though? Do Pat and GRRM have an ethical obligation to put out book 3 at some point, assuming they are able?

        On the one hand, one can argue that all of the books are complete works in and of themselves and we all got what we paid for. On the other hand though, we bought those books with the promise that a future novel would conclude the series. Like a mail-order Civil War chess set where you purchase one piece per month, I think it’s reasonable to make the argument that there’s an ethical obligation to not leave us unable to purchase a complete product.

        Of course, the difference here is the time frame. Whether the point where one could reasonably conclude that the obligation has not been met is 50 years or 5 years after the previous novel is tough to answer in any sort of objective way. The best we can do is compare them to other authors.

        Of course the problem with that is that I’m not aware of a single other author writing million-word, meta-heavy stories of the caliber Pat is producing. I’m equally unaware of anyone besides Martin writing million-word stories with detailed and believable political intrigue where none of the players are stupid, where the author kills off main characters whom the readers love and doesn’t lose the audience’s trust, where the multiple points of view are all interesting and show verisimilitude in their motivations, etc. While I love Sanderson, I don’t think the comparison is entirely fair for a variety of reasons including differences in narrative style, complexity, genre expansion, characterization and the massive backlog that Sanderson was working through until very recently.

        Personally, I want the best book I can get from both Pat and George and I’m willing to wait however long it takes. At the end of the day though, it comes down to where one falls on quality vs. quantity as well as how much faith one has in their favorite authors putting in an appropriate percentage of their time in order to produce in a timely manner. I think reasonable people can disagree here.

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM | Permalink

          “Of course the problem with that is that I’m not aware of a single other author writing million-word, meta-heavy stories of the caliber Pat is producing. I’m equally unaware of anyone besides Martin writing million-word stories with detailed and believable political intrigue where none of the players are stupid”

          Perfectly sums up what I feel about Pat’s work! I haven’t read Martin’s GoT’s series, but what I’ve seen on the show is pretty genius, and about the only politically focused fantasy series I could see myself being interested in.

          I really dont mind waiting – obviously – either. For some reason I trust Pat and believe he simply wants to put out the BEST thing he can and that takes time. (Time I’m willing to give to get the answers!) I’m glad DAW allows him this time, and they must offer him an amazing editor, because so far the series has been a step above ANY other fantasy series I’ve actually read. (IMHO) Then again – I’m sort of a fangirl when it comes to KKC, so…my opinion is highly biased and nearly impossible to sway LOL.

      • marcocanov
        Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM | Permalink

        Royalties. Yes, publishers buy the rights to a book and pay something for it. They also have to pay royalties to the authors, which means that some of the money we pay for a book goes to the author.

        I think I am in Pats blog and maybe outnumbered here, but clearly there are people out there (see video) that believe as I do.

        What do you guys think is harder, to write a book and a story that is being shaped in your head, using your own imagination, or studying someones work and trying to use their notes to decipher what story that person wanted to tell?

        • IvoryDoom
          Posted June 27, 2012 at 12:57 PM | Permalink

          - I think you maybe right on being outnumbered LOL. Probably not the best place to make your argument. I at least will admit, I’m completely biased on the subject. :)

          In regards to your question though – I think it’s harder to start from scratch. In the end, if you have to finish someone else’s story, you are going to use YOUR imagination to finish it, but they already laid all the ground work, so you immediatly dont have to deal with world building and other character issues, like the alignment of certain characters, the whole process of conceiving a believable villian – stuff like that, that would already be built into a series.

          Honestly – at this point, I feel like if Pat died (GOD FORBID!) even I could write a conceivably interesting and connectable fan fic to hook into his series and close it up. I have about 5 million ideas and have reread the books a few times. But I’d prefer Pat’s ending…of course.
          (This is just hypothetical)

  38. fuzzbinn
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 8:19 PM | Permalink

    I may have listened to this song 9 or 10 straight times. May have.

  39. Karl
    Posted June 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM | Permalink

    I’m less worried about having to wait between books as a reader, than I am about whether George RR Martin lives long enough to finish the series at all.

    I mean, if Martin were Pat’s age I might be a little annoyed at 5-6 years between books as that does seem longer than necessary even for such long and good and detail-intensive books, but I’d rather wait and get a book of similar quality to the previous ones and a satisfying conclusion to the epic than get an inferior book in a shorter time frame.

    But Martin isn’t Pat’s age. He’s in his 60′s. And he’s very overweight. The statistical life expectancy for obese men in their 60′s isn’t very high. In fact I bet it’s less than the time it would take George to complete the series if he continues at his established pace. That is what concerns me, as someone who has invested significant time and emotional energy into the world GRRM has created. I want him to “write like the wind” not because I think I’m entitled but because I want to see him finish what he’s begun before he dies. His unwillingness to publicly acknowledge that this is even a little bit of a concern (at least as far as I’ve ever seen) bothers me. Is he in denial, or is he aware of the ticking of his mortality clock and trying to speed up his writing behind the scenes, but just unwilling to give fans the satisfaction of hearing him articulate it? No one but GRRM can say for sure, but from the outside he seems to be in denial and that’s just as annoying to me, as spoiled entitled fans are to GRRM. I at least hope that he’s left a detailed-ass outline of what happens to each major character (he’s already said he knows which major characters survive to the end, and knows the way the series ends) so that somebody can at least try to wind it up if he pulls a Frank Herbert/Robert Jordan.

  40. spiritus mundi
    Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM | Permalink

    These types of threads always sadden me, because of teh inevitable handfull of folks who cannot restrain themselves from attacking an author for not delivering a product they love at a pace they demand. I understand teh frustration behind these thoughts. I’ve been a GRRM fan since long before GoT was first published, and I counted every year of the 25 it took for Glen Cook to complete his Dread Empire Series (and would rather, now, have waited 30 and allowed him to complete it with the 3 volumes originally planned.)

    But that does not grant license to be an ass.

    Nor does a comparison of writing speeds and page counts between authors yield anything meaningful to a discussion of art. It might be one part of a discussion of commerce, but any argument that either Patrick Rothfus or George Martin is somehow failing at the commercial aspect of writing seems doomed to rapid failure and justified derision.

    So long as people are producing art, they will do so using processes unique to each individual artist. That is not only inseparable from the act of creation, it is the very heart of why we call it art. We fall in love with these books initially because of teh unique vision each author brings to life through their efforts. Certainly we all like to have *more* of what we love. And I respect anyone who decides that the wait is too long and they will spend their money elsewhere. Consumers play a role in art, too, and nobody is obligated to continue that role simply because they once picked up a book. But here’s a simple test that I often find helpful: When I treat a human being as if the only value they have is measured by how useful they are to me – then I am being an ass.

    So if you want to stop supporting any artist with your money – good on ya, mate. If you want to support such a decision publicy, even argue that others should make the same choice – no worries. But if you start talking about a human being as if the only value they have is when they produce what you demand on the schedule you desire, when you speak of the health or even death of a human being in terms of how sad/angry/etc. you will be that you might not get to buy something you want – well, then you are being an ass.

    Please try to stop.

    • spiritus mundi
      Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM | Permalink

      Oh – and the video was brilliant. I loved it.

    • marcocanov
      Posted June 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM | Permalink

      Agreed, I should not be an ass about it. But in all honesty, I only care about Pat for the story he tells. He is not my friend, he doesnt call on my birthday, he has no idea I exist.

      The death of Robert Jordan hurt for a lot of his family and I am sure the hole he left in them is enormous. But for his fans, his death hurt because he would not finish writing TWOT. That is just truth. I do not want to be disrespectful and certainly not an ass, but the truth is that we care about authors for their books, not for them.

      • spiritus mundi
        Posted June 27, 2012 at 12:34 PM | Permalink

        Absolutely. The nature of our relationships with most artists is as consumers of their work (or participants in thir art, depending upon one’s particular aesthetics.) The feelings we have when our desires for artistic “completion” are frustrated are certainly real and “valid” to whatever extent that word can be applied to emotions. But as with any othe rfeeling, the actions we take in response to emotion define us all as human beings. I will be sad should I not be able to read GRRM’s conclision to ASOIAF. I may even be angry, depending upon the circumstances. But the path from those emotions to attacking the man (who I have only met once and know little about) for his work ethic, failure to meet a visually identifiable standard of health, ethical shortcomings for not confronting the possibility that his death with inconvenience my desire to consiume, etc. – well, that path crosses through territory that prefer not to allow into my heart.

        FWIW, if GRRM (or Patick Rothfuss, or whomever) ever attacks a reader for failing to buy their book whenever it is finally released – well, then that would be an ass move, too.

  41. daiceman
    Posted June 27, 2012 at 9:46 PM | Permalink

    A little NSFW with the lyrics, but game of thrones intro with lyrics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AyTuQFdn3E

  42. Kyrenna
    Posted June 28, 2012 at 5:34 AM | Permalink

    I wanted to reply to Karl’s post. Then I read Spiritus mundi’s well-articulated posts and they saved me a lot of typing.

  43. ASamuelson
    Posted June 29, 2012 at 4:34 PM | Permalink

    Ok, this is one of the greatest youtube videos ever. My spleen hurts.

Post a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.

  • What are your odds?

  • Worldbuilders 2014!

  • Our Store

  • Previous Posts

  • Archives

  • My Twitter

  • Bookmark this Blog

    (IE and Firefox users only - Safari users, click Command-D)